IRC log of #dokuwiki @ irc.libera.chat

For Thursday, 9 September 2010

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45. 13:02:19

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46. message at 13:02:24

    amee2k

    morning everyone

47. message at 13:02:27

    amee2k

    :)

48. message at 13:03:33

    amee2k

    why do i get an error "E-Mail address <user@localhost> is not valid" when changing a user's email address to the one in the message?

49. message at 13:03:57

    amee2k

    (i assume the "Notification email could not be sent" message following right after that is a consequence of the message above)

50. 13:42:31

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51. message at 13:42:44

    splitbrain

    hi

52. message at 13:43:08

    splitbrain

    Chris--S, could I get your thoughts on FS#2020 ?

53. message at 13:52:23

    Chris--S

    is that number right

54. message at 13:52:39

    Chris--S

    i'm redirected to bugs home

55. message at 13:54:13

    adrianlang

    Chris--S: http://bugs.splitbrain.org/index.php?do=details&task_id=2020 works

56. message at 13:54:24

    adrianlang

    hm, nope

57. message at 13:54:42

    Chris--S

    i see now. I get a permission error

58. message at 13:54:47

    Chris--S

    I'm not allowed to view that bug

59. message at 13:55:33

    splitbrain

    are you logged in?

60. message at 13:55:39

    Chris--S

    yes

61. message at 13:55:41

    splitbrain

    I set the bug to private

62. message at 13:55:42

    splitbrain

    hmm

63. message at 13:55:44

    splitbrain

    okay

64. message at 13:55:48

    splitbrain

    let me change that

65. message at 13:56:10

    splitbrain

    okay try again

66. message at 14:00:16

    Chris--S

    i tried it

67. message at 14:00:22

    Chris--S

    i don't have a file test.php

68. message at 14:00:57

    splitbrain

    ?

69. message at 14:01:03

    adrianlang

    Chris--S: But test.php.meta?

70. message at 14:01:06

    Chris--S

    yes

71. message at 14:01:13

    Chris--S

    test.php.changes test.php.txt

72. message at 14:01:15

    adrianlang

    Chris--S: That's the problem.

73. message at 14:01:35

    splitbrain

    the real problem is Multiviews I think

74. message at 14:01:39

    Chris--S

    multiviews

75. message at 14:01:40

    Chris--S

    yes

76. message at 14:01:41

    adrianlang

    "Apache will threat files named filename.php.something as php files and execute them."

77. message at 14:01:52

    Chris--S

    it won't unless you are runnning multiviews

78. message at 14:02:06

    adrianlang

    Yeah, so?

79. message at 14:02:15

    adrianlang

    Multiviews is quite common.

80. message at 14:02:20

    splitbrain

    unfortunately multiviews seems to be default on many distributions

81. message at 14:09:07

    Chris--S

    i've turned on multiviews and I'm running mod_negotiation

82. message at 14:09:12

    Chris--S

    still not seeing anything

83. message at 14:09:52

    Chris--S

    i think it has to recognise the final extension too

84. message at 14:10:00

    Chris--S

    the page will run ... ie. test.php.txt

85. message at 14:11:02

    Chris--S

    configuration of a webserver and dokuwiki is something the wiki admin has to do. we can't take into account all possible configurations

86. message at 14:11:42

    adrianlang

    Chris--S: That's ignorant. We have so many crap fixes for shit ppl do on their servers or clients.

87. message at 14:12:08

    Chris--S

    possibly we should add Options -Multiviews into .htaccess, but if they're running .htaccess the Order/Allow/Deny will take care of it

88. message at 14:12:21

    adrianlang

    Anyways, it could be possible that someone cannot run DokuWiki securely on a hosting service due to this problem.

89. message at 14:12:25

    splitbrain

    adrianlang, what's your suggestion?

90. message at 14:12:51

    adrianlang

    Actually, even my Server config defaults to Multiviews and no htaccess.

91. message at 14:14:24

    Chris--S

    two I can think of, ban ".php" and any other standard executable extension from filenames (at least as a default config option), encode filenames on disk

92. message at 14:14:37

    adrianlang

    And by "defaults to" I mean: That's the current config I am using.

93. message at 14:15:43

    Chris--S

    presumably if your server runs mod_ruby, test.rb would exhibit the same problem

94. message at 14:17:19

    adrianlang

    Disabling MultiViews didnt work for me

95. message at 14:18:53

    adrianlang

    <Directory /var/www/wiki/>

96. message at 14:18:53

    adrianlang

    Options -MultiViews

97. message at 14:18:53

    adrianlang

    [rewrite stuff]

98. message at 14:18:53

    adrianlang

    </Directory>

99. message at 14:18:56

    adrianlang

    Didnt work

100. message at 14:20:21

     Chris--S

     we could try our own variation on address layout randomization

101. message at 14:20:37

     Chris--S

     pages-{randomnumber}

102. message at 14:20:54

     adrianlang

     We could reverse the page name

103. message at 14:21:02

     Chris--S

     meta-{randomnumber}

104. message at 14:21:10

     adrianlang

     Ah, doesnt work with php

105. message at 14:21:30

     Chris--S

     adrianlang, do you mean meta.test.php

106. message at 14:21:42

     Chris--S

     or php.tset.meta

107. message at 14:21:44

     adrianlang

     Na, every single character

108. message at 14:21:50

     adrianlang

     Like that

109. message at 14:22:07

     Chris--S

     then I can create a page called php.tset

110. message at 14:22:07

     adrianlang

     Forget it

111. message at 14:22:11

     adrianlang

     Exactly

112. 14:22:28

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113. message at 14:22:29

     Chris--S

     {randomnumber} into the directory tree

114. message at 14:22:49

     Chris--S

     but not media portion - where it would be visible and its purpose would have been defeated

115. message at 14:23:47

     adrianlang

     Mh

116. message at 14:23:50

     adrianlang

     Hashing the file name?

117. message at 14:24:11

     Chris--S

     one of dokuwiki's plus's is you can read the files on the disk

118. message at 14:24:17

     Chris--S

     pluses

119. message at 14:24:19

     adrianlang

     Definitely

120. message at 14:24:39

     Chris--S

     hashing the name would reduce that as you wouldn't know which file to look at

121. message at 14:24:47

     adrianlang

     Spam-Blacklisting '<?' in files with .php in the name when .htaccess is not available? :)

122. 14:24:47

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123. message at 14:24:59

     Chris--S

     we could encode the "."

124. message at 14:25:42

     Chris--S

     test%2ephp

125. message at 14:26:21

     Chris--S

     adrianlang, its not just php

126. message at 14:26:34

     adrianlang

     Chris--S: Yeah, I know

127. message at 14:26:48

     Chris--S

     the possibility extends to any executable, do they all use <?

128. message at 14:27:00

     adrianlang

     But ppl who have another interpreters running probably are able to change their config

129. message at 14:27:12

     adrianlang

     Not that I know how to fix the config right now …

130. message at 14:27:29

     Chris--S

     alot of the big hosting services offer all sorts of languages these days as part of default package

131. message at 14:27:38

     Chris--S

     certainly php, ruby, perl

132. message at 14:27:48

     Chris--S

     python too

133. message at 14:28:11

     adrianlang

     Ok

134. message at 14:28:40

     adrianlang

     So changing the file name is probably our only chance

135. message at 14:29:10

     Chris--S

     i think random number and/or encoding '.'

136. message at 14:29:14

     adrianlang

     http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_mime.html#multipleext

137. message at 14:29:48

     Chris--S

     or always stick a .txt on the end

138. message at 14:29:56

     adrianlang

     "If you would prefer only the last dot-separated part of the filename to be mapped to a particular piece of meta-data, then do not use the Add* directives."

139. message at 14:30:29

     Chris--S

     test.php.meta.txt

140. message at 14:30:50

     Chris--S

     however for me test.php.meta wasn't the problem, test.php.txt was

141. message at 14:31:10

     adrianlang

     For me its the other way round

142. message at 14:31:20

     adrianlang

     .txt is no problem, .meta gives phpinfo

143. message at 14:33:16

     adrianlang

     Fuck

144. message at 14:33:18

     adrianlang

     really

145. message at 14:33:46

     Chris--S

     i like adding a installation chosen random number in the directory tree

146. message at 14:34:17

     adrianlang

     Hm-m

147. message at 14:34:35

     Chris--S

     it should require access to the server to discover and if they have access to the server, you have a much bigger problem

148. message at 14:34:57

     splitbrain

     so you can't guess the path?

149. message at 14:35:01

     Chris--S

     yes

150. message at 14:35:12

     adrianlang

     Still, it gives PHP execution rights as www-data to anyone allowed to read the wiki dir

151. message at 14:35:12

     splitbrain

     hmm

152. message at 14:35:45

     adrianlang

     Anyways, changing the data directory is a config option

153. message at 14:36:03

     splitbrain

     also it would have to be a big number,otherwise I can just try them all

154. message at 14:36:04

     Chris--S

     but its discoverable through media

155. message at 14:36:09

     adrianlang

     So how about checking whether htaccess works (maybe in the installer), and if not, adding the random number?

156. message at 14:36:53

     Chris--S

     8 or 10 * 62 characters should be pretty good

157. message at 14:37:34

     Chris--S

     thats about 2.2 e14

158. message at 14:37:46

     adrianlang

     Chris--S: It is? (Discoverable)

159. message at 14:37:54

     splitbrain

     so we'd rename the data dir?

160. message at 14:38:10

     splitbrain

     or put a subdirectory inside data?

161. message at 14:38:13

     Chris--S

     adrianlang, actually I'm not sure, that's a gues

162. message at 14:38:15

     Chris--S

     guess

163. message at 14:38:54

     Chris--S

     splitbrain, it depends on the media access ... does the client browser ever see the file path from doc root to the media file

164. message at 14:38:56

     splitbrain

     and set $conf['savedir'] = 'data/randomstring';?

165. message at 14:39:06

     splitbrain

     no

166. message at 14:39:23

     Chris--S

     ok. then your solution should be ok

167. message at 14:39:23

     splitbrain

     media is not acessible from the outside

168. message at 14:39:33

     adrianlang

     Jep

169. message at 14:40:09

     splitbrain

     reliable htaccess checking is only possible through js

170. message at 14:40:50

     Chris--S

     could probably do through meta redirects

171. message at 14:40:56

     splitbrain

     so the installer would need to try accessing the data dir and fill in a "random prefix" field via JS

172. message at 14:41:09

     splitbrain

     hm how?

173. message at 14:42:05

     Chris--S

     actually probably a bad idea

174. message at 14:42:06

     adrianlang

     splitbrain: How about loading an background image with the warning text through something protected?

175. message at 14:42:18

     Chris--S

     you'd get stuck

176. message at 14:42:22

     splitbrain

     adrianlang, good idea

177. message at 14:42:28

     splitbrain

     to display a warning

178. message at 14:42:50

     splitbrain

     problem with the prefix:

179. message at 14:43:05

     splitbrain

     our install tarball has the whole data/* structure

180. message at 14:43:24

     adrianlang

     Yes

181. message at 14:43:26

     splitbrain

     it's all ugly

182. message at 14:43:49

     Chris--S

     but its possible to program around

183. message at 14:43:52

     adrianlang

     Dead ugly

184. message at 14:44:09

     splitbrain

     I still vote for do checks but leave resolution to user

185. message at 14:44:10

     adrianlang

     but moving should be possible

186. message at 14:44:22

     adrianlang

     splitbrain: And how to resolve?

187. message at 14:44:42

     splitbrain

     adrianlang, as a user?

188. message at 14:44:57

     adrianlang

     As someone not having access to the server config

189. message at 14:45:25

     splitbrain

     a) move savedir out of webroot b) rename data to something cryptic and set $conf['savedir']

190. message at 14:45:55

     adrianlang

     Ok, that's right

191. message at 14:46:19

     splitbrain

     b) needs to be documented at :security

192. message at 14:47:13

     Chris--S

     adding a move step is pretty straightforward.

193. message at 14:47:33

     splitbrain

     Chris--S, not if the permissions don't fit

194. message at 14:47:55

     Chris--S

     don't we always have write access inside data?

195. message at 14:48:11

     splitbrain

     no only to data/*

196. message at 14:48:26

     splitbrain

     at least that's waht we check AFAIR

197. message at 14:50:15

     adrianlang

     <Directory /var/www/wiki/>

198. message at 14:50:16

     adrianlang

     Options -MultiViews

199. message at 14:50:16

     adrianlang

     AllowOverride Limit

200. message at 14:50:16

     adrianlang

     [rewrite stuff]

201. message at 14:50:16

     adrianlang

     </Directory>

202. message at 14:50:16

     adrianlang

     works

203. message at 14:51:19

     Chris--S

     we do check that data is writable

204. message at 14:51:49

     splitbrain

     okay

205. message at 14:51:52

     splitbrain

     but

206. message at 14:52:23

     splitbrain

     for checking the subdirectories we'd need the random bit. but that random bit isn't set in the installer, yet

207. message at 14:52:59

     adrianlang

     Dominik proposed to use a "russian dot" instead of the ascii dot

208. message at 14:54:50

     Chris--S

     will that be valid on all file systems?

209. message at 14:54:55

     adrianlang

     Another proposal from him, slightly related: Instead of prohibiting single accesses, allowing only index.php, doku.php, feed.php, lib

210. message at 14:55:28

     splitbrain

     the latter is not in our hands

211. message at 14:55:56

     splitbrain

     the former is problematic with filesystems. also brekas existing installs

212. message at 14:56:02

     splitbrain

     *breaks

213. message at 14:56:03

     adrianlang

     splitbrain: Well, in my case it would have saved my ass, because I actually //used// the default .htaccess, I only copied it over to the static configs.

214. message at 14:56:40

     splitbrain

     adrianlang, I see

215. message at 14:56:45

     Chris--S

     adrianlang, I don't understand your last but one comment

216. message at 14:57:19

     splitbrain

     Chris--S, it's not really a solution

217. message at 14:57:45

     splitbrain

     it's just that he modelled his vserver setup after our default htaccess

218. message at 14:57:50

     adrianlang

     It's only a solution for a very specific case

219. message at 14:58:46

     splitbrain

     adrianlang, you would have been save when the main .htaccess would also have included the other .htaccess setups eg. denying access to data

220. message at 14:58:52

     adrianlang

     Yes

221. message at 14:59:16

     splitbrain

     but that's a fuckup on your side setting up the server ;-)

222. message at 14:59:35

     splitbrain

     (and not reading :security)

223. message at 14:59:52

     adrianlang

     Well, I didn't know that granting people right rights on /data would inflict php exec right

224. message at 14:59:59

     adrianlang

     *read rights, that is

225. message at 15:00:48

     splitbrain

     adrianlang, well it also grants access to all your pages (regardless of ACL) and access to your cookie security file

226. message at 15:01:23

     adrianlang

     Jup

227. message at 15:02:53

     splitbrain

     anyway. what's our decision?

228. message at 15:04:06

     adrianlang

     Prominent warnings + suggestions seems ok

229. message at 15:04:44

     splitbrain

     I'll look into adding the background image thingy you suggested to the installer

230. message at 15:05:23

     adrianlang

     We should write a good documentation

231. message at 15:06:44

     Chris--S

     and create a feature request for adding capability to installer to handle moving data directory when possible and at users direction

232. message at 15:07:12

     adrianlang

     Which would be cool anyway

233. message at 15:07:30

     Chris--S

     ideally if it could move it below docroot

234. message at 15:12:32

     adrianlang

     http://www.dokuwiki.org/doku.php?do=check

235. message at 15:13:17

     adrianlang

     Why did it fail to check?

236. message at 15:13:31

     adrianlang

     Because there is no URL to the data dir at all?

237. message at 15:38:19

     splitbrain

     it probably get's a 200 but not the content it is looking for

238. message at 15:38:36

     splitbrain

     because I have lighty rewriting

239. message at 15:41:23

     splitbrain

     okay the image based check in installer is pushed

240. message at 15:41:50

     splitbrain

     should I replace the javascript one in the admin screen with this one instead?

241. 15:44:14

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242. message at 15:44:36

     adrianlang

     The image version is probably even faster

243. message at 15:44:44

     adrianlang

     And if we already have the image, why not use it

244. message at 15:51:52

     splitbrain

     okay

245. message at 15:59:05

     splitbrain

     done

246. 16:54:06

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259. message at 18:26:22

     u42p

     can i control what users are allowed to embed html?

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